YMMV but switching from laptop OS X to desktop Linux has been a gamechanger for me. Far cheaper, and the power / UX of a mid-range 2020 desktop blows my 2019 Macbook Pro completely out of the water for my usecase. Code is a joy again. When I do use my Macbook on the go, I generally use VSCode remotely connected to my desktop because it's so much faster.
I also use Regolith Linux, which is a noob-friendly tiling window manager version of Ubuntu, and it feels so slick with multiple monitors.
I switched from a macOS laptop to a Linux laptop and it’s been completely the opposite for me. I’ve been spending so much time fighting the OS, I’m actually considering buying a Mac again even though the laptop is just a few months old.
You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends.
Just as one example of many, when the device is connected to a Thunderbolt display the Intel wifi driver crashes and restarts periodically which freezes USB input for about 15 seconds every time. This issue persisted across different Linux distributions, kernels and firmware versions.
Don’t ask how long it took to figure this out. I have now connected a USB wifi dongle to the displays USB hub.
I really miss the plug+play nature of macOS, I think Linux has it advantages and it might be better on desktops but it’s just been horrible for me on a laptop. I might have to try a MacBook plus a fast Linux desktop next.
> You can call me too incompetent or whatever but I’ve been running into stupidly obscure bugs that even stumped some of my Linux guru friends.
No, you're not incompetent. As usual, manufacturers are putting weird features into their laptops that the Linux drivers and userspace can't keep up with - e.g. the debacle that is the Nvidia Prime gpu switching tech for low power vs high performance modes. Simply doesn't work most of the time, leaving you scratching your head. UEFI related woes are also common as we finally deal with having to give up on a decent experience with legacy boot.
At this point the wise person buys a laptop with official Linux support out of the box. It helps you and it helps the community (vote with your dollars!).
Yes, weird features such as "802.11n wifi", "suspending the system when lid closed" etc. Had a well supported older thinkpad (even supports open source bioses etc), and issues cropped up in those areas
For sure, but usually this comes down to "manufacturer picked a slightly cheaper wifi chip with no linux support", "manufacturer is doing weird shit with ACPI they shouldn't", etc.
It was a Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with Ubuntu, far and away the most recommended distro/hardware combination. Everything else seems to be less supported.
If someone doesn't know how to dig into terminal commands and google stuff on your phone to troubleshoot, you shouldn't even attempt linux on a desktop.
Oh yeah, Dell XPS Dev edition is usually a decent choice, although you're right that not everything works perfectly (at least it didn't a few years ago when I bought one). It is a little annoying to have bugs in a factory-installed OS, but I'm glad to at least have the option.
I actually prefer Thinkpads these days because everything "just works" when I install Fedora on it.
If you're an Ubuntu person and want it from the factory, I have heard that System76 build quality has gotten pretty good.
"Ubuntu Certified hardware has passed our extensive testing and review process to make sure Ubuntu runs well out of the box and it is ready for your business. We work closely with OEMs to jointly make Ubuntu available on a wide range of devices."
So in this case it is a collaboration between Ubuntu and OEMs
Only thing you need to look out for when buying components is what the Linux support looks like. I've built 3 desktops in the last couple of years and all of them work out of the box. It really doesn't "require" forum diving.
A Dell XPS 13 developer edition with ubuntu preinstalled hasn't worked "out of the box" for simple multi monitor usecases for me. Invariably something requires an update for support that invalidates some assumption and then whoops the only guide that describes your problem has a solution that involves pulling and compiling X.org in a terminal and dealing with tarballs.
And someone can go gosh, you must be doing it wrong, and they're almost certainly correct! However I'm a pretty big power user and can actually get things to work and dig into forums, so I realize that the average user has absolutely no chance.
Linux laptops are a mixed bag, to say the least. One-off "precision tuned" (vs commodity) hardware is often to blame. In general, if you want a stable linux laptop experience, you should be buying old. It's not very attractive, but it is sustainable -- which is it's own kind of attractive! :)
In general, my experience using debian-based distros as a laptop driver have been more or less frictionless. I use an older lenovo thinkpad (x1 carbon, 1st generation, purchased for like $200 secondhand a year and a half ago).
In general, thinkpads have a reputation for having a plug+play linux experience, once you boot for the first time. I'd recommend giving them a try before throwing in the towel, if you have any patience in reserve.
You can get pre-owned (older=more stable linux support) t-series thinkpads with very nice specs, especially if you're willing to trade off display resolution. Plus the parts that die (batteries, ram) are all commodity and replaceable, you could presumably run with the same laptop for a decade, if you're in to that sort of thing.
Hi, i have a Thinkpad L450 and when i was looking at switching to Ubuntu on my laptop, i saw that it had worse batery life than windows,i don't remember how much,maybe 10-15%?Do you have any experience on that?Battery life is pretty important for when i take my laptop on courses(not anymore eh)
I’d say give it a try. My experience has always diverged from the stated norms on battery life in all devices and contexts, but maybe my usage patterns are abnormal.
If you’re using simpler programs (Firefox, terminal), your battery life should be great. I usually get four hours of heavy vim use with WiFi etc all on, on a battery that’s 75% capacity. YMMV.
It’s not a mbp level, but I imagine it’s fairly similar to what windows would draw. Maybe better.
It’s a new X390 Yoga though. Maybe they’ve dropped the ball a little, it definitely matches my friends’ experience that the more traditional models are pretty stable.
Sorry to hear this. Yeah, it’s probably a matter of getting an older one. The newer ones are trying to compete with surfaces and mbp, and it’s been painful to watch :/
What laptop are you using? I think that would be helpful context. I've been running Ubuntu 16.04 on my Dell XPS 15 9560 with almost no issues (and none that aren't easily resolved with a shell script or a keyboard shortcut) for almost three years now. I get the sense that the more popular the hardware, the fewer issues you'll have running Linux on it. I certainly wouldn't call you "too incompetent" -- but I might call you just plain unlucky.
If you want to go back to macOS because you don't have to be "lucky" to get a laptop that plays nice, I don't blame you. But for me, the tradeoffs to stay on Linux have been minimal and absolutely worth it.
I recently got a new laptop and bought it from one of those linux specialist places after having a pretty terrible compatibility experience with my previous high end HP laptop.
As an intermediate, install windows on the insiders channel, though update 20h1/2004 should be out soon for GA.
I had to jump into windows for a few things last month, and WSL2 on windows has become pretty good and bearable, the Docker beta support for WSL2 also really good... seems to use a bit more memory than I recall. But linux cli with a Windows GUI has been surprisingly bearable... Remote (wsl/ssh) extensions for VS Code invaluable as well.
Far less obscure than the issue you cite but I have found keyboard shortcuts across the OS and third party apps on Linux are so incredibly inconsistent when compared to macOS (or Windows for that matter.) I find I'm constantly bouncing between control, alt, and super to achieve what I could do in macOS with just super.
Truth is, Linux doesn't work well on new hardware unless it is some specific models that state Linux support like some dell or thinkpad machines.
You bugs will probably be fixed in a couple of months/years.
I don't completely love any setup, but I'm starting to think that Windows 10 + WSL is the best open-source development setup. Huge variety of hardware, plus all hardware actually works right, plus pretty much any popular desktop app works reliably and has a good GUI, plus all Linux CLI tools are there and work right.
What's the fascination with laptops anyway? Are that many people really working from coffee shops? I'm pretty much always coding on the same desk at home and a mid-high end desktop is significantly cheaper than a decent laptop and much more powerful than even the really high end laptops. The ergonomics are also much better, although that can be fixed on laptops with docks and separate monitors etc too.
If you have to do a demo in a different room, it's a pain. Your best bet is usually to use another laptop.
Same thing if you want to have a call in a quiet place and want to check emails/reference during the call.
Work from home is also easier, you don't have to use 2 computers or carry your tower (though currently that's viable).
It's more about those that work from the office mostly, maybe go into meetings etc... and then home occasionally (or right now, mostly).
At work, I'm on a dock... at home, I'm on a 4k-kvm switch... so I'm not really using the laptop but for a lighter computers... Just got bumped to 32gb ram, which is most of the laptop bottleneck. Though my personal system (r9 3950x) is much faster than the laptop (i7 8550u) both on 1tb nvme.
I'm envious of your 3950x, but on the other hand I suspect I'd never actually max it out. I should get into video editing or something to justify more PC upgrades...
Even then... Literally the only time I max it out is when I'm doing a handbrake x265 encode on a faster preset... the slower presets only use about 75% of CPU. If I did it again, would probably go with a 3900X and spend the extra $250 towards an RTX 2070 Super instead of the RX 5700 XT that I got.
My old computer was over 5yo at upgrade, with a mid-cycle upgrade of a couple components, likely this will be the same, though I don't think I will ever go RGB again.
It's the TESmart KVM Switch... HDMI 4K 60hz 4:4:4, I like it okay. Seemed about the best option on Amazon, but mixed reviews. My display is 60hz, and I don't play many games, so it works well enough for my use.
I did get hdmi adapters for my pi4's, but haven't actually tried them yet. May need different adapters/cables if you're going to/from mini-dp or another interface. back of the switch looks like USB-B Female (standard USB cable, not 3) and HDMI Female.
I've only been using it for about 4 weeks, but so far working well.
I'm sheltering in place and in the past 3 hours, I've coded in like 3 areas of my house. I also need to move when my partner is working and is on a call.
Not having a dedicated work area like a home office or just a desk and office chair in a corner of the living room (this is my solution) sounds like a nightmare to me.
Having a single spot to work at, never to change location, posture, or surrounding sight sounds like a nightmare to me.
I have two sofas, a small desk and a bigger one in two different rooms, a balcony, a table in the kitchen and one in the garden. I frequently switch and move between all of those, which helps me a lot in getting out of coding slumps and refocus. I was so happy to give up my static one desk multimonitor setup at the office for a nimble 13" laptop work from home situation.
I used to think the way you do as recently as just a few years ago. I couldn't imagine not being able to pick up and move to a cafe or co-working space. I was working a lot of hours and working from home when I probably shouldn't have.
What I've found is that since having a desktop and a dedicated desk and office in my house, when I leave the room I don't bring work with me. I also don't have push notifications enabled on my phone, including email. When I go out, I enjoy other things and then when I come back to my desk, I am much more focused and ready to concentrate on work.
Yep, different people have different subjective preferences about working situations, who woulda thunk it? I am interested to hear peoples perspectives though.
I have a desktop PC at home in a home office. My wife is right near me.
I think this is probably a problem because I also play games on it so the room sends very mixed messages to my brain.
I help with a small business so have to use my PC for that. With my day job I have a laptop provided and do move around the house to get a mental disconnect and help me focus on some tasks. The problem is it's not a great device for stuff like in-depth research, I really want a big screen for that, so usually have to use the PC and get distracted.
I have one of those. I've been remote for a couple years so none of this is new to me.
I just unplugged my laptop from my standing desk and went to lay down for my postprandial chill session. I'm going to get some work done as soon as I'm done faffing about on HN (whomst among us...) and then I'll probably plug back in again.
It's just easier to do it this way rather than synchronize state between a desktop and laptop. One less thing to own, also.
I think there's more to it than just working from a coffee shop.
Without going into people who are often on the road, many folks I know like working on the same computer at the office and at home.
It's usually easier to carry a laptop than a desktop. Even though there are many very small desktops nowadays (see HP's elitedesk mini - though it looks like a laptop without an screen, so I'm not sure it's that much more powerful) the laptop has usually fewer cables to unplug so it's generally less of a pain.
Another angle is that for many people a laptop has enough power for the activities they do and being portable is a real plus. I'm typing this on a 2013 MBP in my bed. This laptop might be slow compared to a modern mid-range desktop, but it's not tethered to a fixed spot. When I need to do serious work, I can plug a 4K screen and external keyboard and have the desktop experience.
On the rare occasion when I need a lot of power for some task, I'll usually fire up some outrageous ec2 instance for an hour or two. It will also have better network connectivity, which allows me to work comfortable over my parents' DSL line too.
I guess it all comes down to usage patterns. If you always use your computer on the same desk and never have the need to move it, I guess a desktop is a more effective use of funds. But many people seem to enjoy being able to carry the computer on a sofa, in the kitchen, etc.
When I started at my current company we had desktop PCs, went home, and used a VPN to dial in.
They got rid of the desktop PCs and gave us all crappy laptops (they took a few years to catch up in power to what we had) and the argument was they could not ensure a secure environment on random home PCs. They were probably angling towards a hot-desk setup too but most people have a dedicated desk still.
I definitely preferred the old setup. I just struggle do any meaningful work at all on a laptop, I need to plug it in to a screen but I can't dedicate that space so normally just put up with it rather than unplug my home setup.
They do provide docks in the office but unfortunately a few different generations of HP laptops are around so you might need to search for the right one.
I don't think in a corporate setting fascination has anything to do with this.
I work for a global bank; we have around a quarter million employees and many of our office spaces employ hot-desking. Each one of us gets a laptop and we can work from wherever.
Especially that you're required to work from home at least one day per week.
It’s not a fascination. The issue is usually that if you have a desktop, you also need a laptop. So unless you actually need a desktop’s power, you just use a laptop with desktop ergonomics (screen, keyboard and mouse) and occasionally go portable.
Is there a distro/DE/WM that handles UI scaling gracefully? Every time I try to go back to Ubuntu with my 5K monitor I'm met with the worst UI scaling options imaginable. For example, scaling up the titlebars, but leaving everything else tiny... or scaling options being limited to 1.0 or 2.0. I still want to output to the monitor at 5K, but with the whole UI scaled up. Mac OS and Windows 10 (to a lesser extent) handle this without issue. I would love to move to Linux full time, but this has been a hurdle for me.
I wonder why this has been such an issue for Microsoft. If I remember correctly, the entire Computer Management program and all of its subcomponents have no functional UI scaling. As pretty as a Retina monitor is, I'm glad that I went with a cheaper, lower-resolution monitor with good color accuracy and reliability. With subpixel hinting, it's very sharp from my usual sitting position. With laptops, I can see the advantage of going HiDPI.
YMMW but I had a really good experience with 2x scaling on a 4k Laptop Screen in standard Ubuntu and gnome. There are still some apps which ignore dpi settings (zoom) or need to be forced to scale (often electron stuff, although you can usually just zoom with Crtl+ there). Otherwise awesome sharp text and fluid.
Fractional scaling seems to be quite a mess, at least in KDE it breaks a lot of layouts.
For price-performance, absolute performance and acoustics laptops never made any sense at all. A 3700X annihilates the highest perf part Apple uses and can be cheaply cooled under full load without causing much noise; or without causing any noise for slightly more expense. And the 3700X is a midrange offering, not high end (unlike the Apple part).
Is there a config you would recommend? Primary use case would be for programming & browsing. Would prefer not to build as I haven't done it but am not averse to the idea.
> Far cheaper, and the power / UX of a mid-range 2020 desktop blows my 2019 Macbook Pro completely out of the water for my usecase.
Which laptop do you use? I tried to switch from my just-post-Intel MacBook Pro to the Lenovo X220 several years ago, figuring Linux support + IBM quality (they had been fairly newly bought out) would give me a solid machine. Turns out several stuck pixels on the monitor and a keyboard on which some keys didn't work were officially regarded as within acceptable quality range. (Plus, I hated the trackpad, but that's my preference rather than a hardware issue.)
The same story. I was mac os addict for a long time since 2010 MacBook air and 2012 MacBook pro. They were amazing machines with stable *nix based OS.
But since that time Apple more focused on phones, desktop OS didn't get much better. The only thing they are doing is more and more cloud integration to lock you in the Apple ecosystem. I got tired of that.
Now I prefer to use Regolith Linux, because it's much better for the development to have a Linux system with proper package management, without messing with the brew.
The distro is insanely fast, and you can almost forget about a mouse with i3. It also is really minimalistic, and default settings are really good. I didn't have any urge to change anything.
And it works really great on Thinkpad laptops which have an amazing keyboard. For home, I am using NUC Hades Canyon with last-get desktop i7 processor which a bought for 300$ and you know what, it's at least 2 times fast comparing 2019 MacBook Pro 15'. RIP mac mini. All drivers installed out of the box, even wifi and external sound card works without any notch.
Why have I never heard of Regolith Linux, it looks like exactly what I've wanted out of a Linux distro for years without me spending forever customizing it to my liking. Thanks for this gem.
I also use Regolith Linux, which is a noob-friendly tiling window manager version of Ubuntu, and it feels so slick with multiple monitors.